[os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using Subversion

Wed May 14 04:38:34 PDT 2008

I assume you're not inclined to update sling6 to RH 5.2? That would
involve a bunch of downtime, I fear. I don't think there's a smooth
update path that would allow you to keep the OS up while you upgraded.

Jason

On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 07:23 -0400, Stephen Ball wrote:
> Yes, I remember I had to build Subversion from source because the distributed version was incompatible with just about everything on the archaic OS level we were using; it's probably easiest to just blow away everything and start from scratch, although you may have to build from source as I did; you may also have to jerk with httpd.
> 
> Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com [mailto:opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com] On Behalf Of Grant Croker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:12 PM
> To: Discussions about the infrastructure needed to support a true open sourcecommunity
> Cc: Jeremy M. Hankinson; Christopher M. Hane
> Subject: Re: [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using Subversion
> 
> Steve,
> 
> qasling6 has two copies of svn, the system one as well as your 
> hand-installed release (a 1.1.0 RC from what I can tell). I will remove 
> the system provided server since it is even older and get the latest 1.5 
> code installed.
> 
> regards
> 
> grant
> 
> 
> Stephen Ball wrote:
> > Hehe...qasling6 is an ideal server for this and it already has a copy of Subversion 1.5 server installed; the interesting coincidence is that the copy of Subversion on that machine is causing an update conflict with up2date right now....what is even funnier is that I think I'm the person that installed Subversion on that machine....way before Andrew cooked up this whole Subversion thing (12-18 months ago) I had been playing around with Subversion and had set it up as a WebDAV server to use for document storage and versioning, and I think I used qasling6.
> >
> > I say we just blow off the updates on this qasling6, unentitle it from RedHat, and set it up as an internal Subversion server.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com [mailto:opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com] On Behalf Of Grant Croker
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:43 PM
> > To: Discussions about the infrastructure needed to support a true open sourcecommunity
> > Cc: Jeremy M. Hankinson; Christopher M. Hane
> > Subject: Re: [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using Subversion
> >
> > I can set this up - If there is a preferred machine to do it on please 
> > let me know.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > grant
> >
> > Stephen Ball wrote:
> >   
> >> I think the principal applies to any action that makes a copy, 
> >> including tagging, but I haven’t tested it.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Andrew, it would be nice to have an svn_play repository, even if it’s 
> >> internal only,  just like we have a picplay one in piccolo, to test 
> >> this kind of thing.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> *From:* opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com 
> >> [mailto:opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com] *On Behalf 
> >> Of *Bodo Bergmann
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:49 PM
> >> *To:* Discussions about the infrastructure needed to support a true 
> >> opensourcecommunity; Alex Hanshaw
> >> *Subject:* RE: [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using 
> >> Subversion
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Steve,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> the manual says in the "Cheap Copies" part:
> >>
> >> The main point here is that copies are cheap, both in time and space. 
> >> If you create a branch entirely within the repository
> >> (by running *svn copy URL1 URL2*), it's a quick, constant-time operation.
> >>
> >> But in case of taking a label (tagging) we don't do a "svn copy URL1 
> >> URL2".
> >>
> >> The copy is rather done from a local working copy to a URL (svn copy 
> >> my-working-copy http://svn.example.com/repos/calc/tags/mytag),
> >>
> >> so I'm not sure if the same "cheap copy" mechanism applies there too.
> >>
> >> Bodo.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com 
> >> [mailto:opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com] *On Behalf 
> >> Of *Stephen Ball
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:30 PM
> >> *To:* Alex Hanshaw
> >> *Cc:* Discussions about the infrastructure needed to support a true 
> >> opensourcecommunity
> >> *Subject:* RE: [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using 
> >> Subversion
> >>
> >> Hi Alex,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Actually, the manual doesn’t make it completely clear exactly when the 
> >> links are used and broken, so I’m not completely sure since I haven’t 
> >> actually tried it. Assuming we’re talking entirely about the server 
> >> rather than the client, the manual seems to imply that the links are 
> >> created when the branch is taken, and then people might edit the files 
> >> in the branch, and once they commit their changes back to the server 
> >> the link is broken on the server and replaced with the updated file. I 
> >> assume that if the client contains a copy of both the trunk and the 
> >> branch, it will contain multiple copies of the files rather than links 
> >> (as it does in piccolo). The description is in the section named 
> >> “cheap copies” here:
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.branchmerge.using.html
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> The implication is that taking branches doesn’t cost you disk space 
> >> unless you change something in them.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> *From:* Alex Hanshaw
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:00 PM
> >> *To:* Stephen Ball
> >> *Cc:* Discussions about the infrastructure needed to support a true 
> >> opensource community
> >> *Subject:* RE: [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using 
> >> Subversion
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Hi Steve
> >>
> >> I can't see how svn could be using links in this situation. What step 
> >> would break the link and provide a local copy? There's no concept of 
> >> an "open" and
> >> editing the file would change the tag and the original file in one hit.
> >> Working through the steps to create a TAG no directory or local copy 
> >> is established until you checkout the TAG. If you are are suggesting 
> >> that svn
> >> maintains files revision information in the repository and then 
> >> creates a copy for the TAG branch IF changes are made in the tag, that 
> >> makes sense because there
> >> is no local visible copy until you check out the TAG.
> >>
> >> Alex
> >>
> >> On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 20:21 -0400, Stephen Ball wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually Subversion branching works much like piccolo branching, the 
> >> branches themselves are implemented as hard links on the server until 
> >> someone changes one of the files in the branch, at which time the link 
> >> is broken and replaced with a real file; so the disk implications of a 
> >> branch are very small…In any case disk is cheap.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> In piccolo taking a branch does normally take a few hours and numerous 
> >> branches eventually cause performance issues in the database, but the 
> >> time and performance problem in piccolo is largely a design issue, the 
> >> database itself was never designed with the intention of branching 
> >> numerous (over 8,000) files numerous times. We shouldn’t assume that 
> >> in Subversion branching either takes a long time or causes database 
> >> performance issues, we need to test that aspect of it; since Grant has 
> >> taken a branch already he may be able to add some input.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> The one thing I’m worried about is the maintenance problem of numerous 
> >> branches; as far as I can see we can’t avoid taking numerous branches 
> >> of the code in order to get the features we need (my read on the 
> >> documentation is the same as Alex’s, we need to make a branch in order 
> >> to get a non head-rev tag), so how do we keep track of all the 
> >> branches and make sure the whole things doesn’t become a big mess?
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> If anyone is interested, I have managed to install a version of the 
> >> Subversive plug-in for Eclipse, and have it running against our 
> >> repository. If we are to get a grip on branch maintenance, a GUI tool 
> >> has to be in the picture, and Subversive looks promising. I have it 
> >> all rolled up into a VMWare VM running SuSE Linux if anyone wants a 
> >> copy; the VM includes SuSE 10.3, all the pre-requisites needed to 
> >> build Ingres pulled directly from the SuSE repository, a copy of 
> >> Eclipse with the CDT and the Subversive plug-in, and a complete 
> >> pre-built copy of Ingres from about a week ago.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>     IngresLogo_Color
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     Steve Ball
> >>
> >>     Direcor, Ingres DBMS Development
> >>
> >>     *Ingres Corporation*
> >>
> >>     stephen.ball at ingres.com <mailto:first.last at ingres.com>
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     *www.ingres.com <http://www.ingres.com>*
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the use
> >>     of the recipient named above. It may contain confidential,
> >>     proprietary, or legally privileged information. If you are not the
> >>     intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized
> >>     review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If
> >>     you have received this transmission in error, please contact the
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> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     *From:*opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com
> >>     [mailto:opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com] *On
> >>     Behalf Of *Bodo Bergmann
> >>     *Sent:* Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:51 AM
> >>     *To:* Alex Hanshaw; Discussions about the infrastructure needed to
> >>     support a trueopensource community; OpenSourceInfrastructure
> >>     *Subject:* AW: [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using
> >>     Subversion
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     Yes, that's what I've already added to the Wiki page.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     But this implementation is both a waste of disk resources on the
> >>     server
> >>
> >>     and also has a huge performance impact as
> >>
> >>     creating a label is not just a matter of seconds but will probably
> >>     take several minutes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     Bodo.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>     *Von:*opensource-infrastructure-bounces at lists.ingres.com im
> >>     Auftrag von Alex Hanshaw
> >>     *Gesendet:* Mo 12.05.2008 08:02
> >>     *An:* OpenSourceInfrastructure
> >>     *Betreff:* [os-infrastructure] Pragmatic Version Control using
> >>     Subversion
> >>
> >>     Hi all
> >>
> >>     So far one of the problem areas we've mentioned with regards to
> >>     subversion is that there is no equivalent to a label.
> >>     Some have already said "tags" do not provide the same functionality.
> >>     However, in the above book I've just read "Tags can also be made
> >>     from a mixed revision working copy - a set of files you've checked
> >>     out that doesn't correspond to a single repository revision
> >>     number". The book only arrived today, I check out the rest of the
> >>     tags and branches section to see if this
> >>     claim is true or not.
> >>
> >>     Alex
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> opensource-infrastructure mailing list
> >> opensource-infrastructure at lists.ingres.com
> >> http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/opensource-infrastructure
> >>   
> >>     
> >
> >
> >   
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > opensource-infrastructure at lists.ingres.com
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> >   
> 
> 
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-- 
Jason Boissiere
Senior Quality Assurance Engineer
Ingres Europe Limited
jason.boissiere at ingres.com
PHONE  +44 01753 559529
www.ingres.com 

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